Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

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talaipwros
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Εγγραφή: 30 Μαρ 2018, 18:54

Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από talaipwros » 30 Μαρ 2024, 13:43

Δε πάμε καθόλου καλα
We can’t afford a taboo on assisted dying
The argument against it is that pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing
SpoilerShow
he late Michael Foot, that cerebral thinker, superb orator and calamitous Labour leader, once taught me a truth I’ve taken to heart. In any debate (Foot said) a good speech identifies the weaknesses in the other side’s case; but a great speech confronts its strengths.

As the Scottish parliament begins work on a bill to legalise assisted dying — a measure I’m sure is overdue — I could spend these thousand words on weaknesses in the objectors’ case. I could tackle the religious objections, which are irrelevant unless you believe in a divinity who has sanctified all human life, and absurd if you aren’t then a pacifist. I could tackle the argument that near-miraculous deathbed recoveries have occurred: yes indeed, but one Lazarus cannot justify a million torments. I could tackle the argument that unscrupulous relatives impatient for their inheritance may try to talk a sick person into ending it all. They may — but they’ll need to involve the certifying doctors in their plot. All these “what if” and “what about” arguments can be resisted, and in the fierce continuing debate, they will be. But count me out.

Anecdote, too, I won’t be drawn into. True stories will be enlisted on both sides. There will be tales of those who suffered to the last yet finally found God, or peace, or meaning. Or stories of loved ones for whom an assisted death was arranged, and who died blissfully happy and relieved. Anecdote can be telling, moving; but it shouldn’t clinch an argument.

• Assisted deaths in Scotland ‘won’t be recorded as suicide’

So I’ll try here to follow Michael Foot’s advice. Let’s acknowledge and confront the strongest argument against assisted dying. As (objectors say) the practice spreads, social and cultural pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths so as “not to be a burden” on others or themselves.
I believe this will indeed come to pass. And I would welcome it.

I don’t dispute the objectors’ belief that once assisted dying becomes normalised we will become more apt to ask ourselves for how much longer we can justify the struggle. Is life still giving us more pleasure than pain? How much is all this costing relatives and the health service? How much of a burden are we placing on those who love us? How much of a burden are we placing upon ourselves? We will notice others asking themselves these questions and we’ll feel empowered by changing social norms to ask them ourselves. Discussion will become more open. It will become common practice to pose this question without embarrassment, and to weigh the answer up.

But it’s not as if these questions are new: they already haunt and have always haunted many afflicted by intolerable misery, indignity or suffering. That’s simply how people think: it’s natural. It’s right. If assisted dying becomes common and widely accepted, hundreds of thousands — perhaps millions — will consider choosing this road when the time comes; and in some cases, even ask themselves whether it would be selfish not to.

In short, a taboo will be lifted — and taboo is potent. What today is criminal could tomorrow become (as its proponents tend to insist) a sad but permitted option in a relatively small number of special and agonising circumstances; but within a decade or more be seen as a normal road for many to take, and considered socially responsible — and even, finally, urged upon people. Such (say objectors) is the wedge of which the Scottish proposal is just the thin end.

• How could assisted dying in Scotland work? The bill explained

Yes, but what’s wrong with the thick end? It will be a healthy development. In this century the future holds an almost cosmic struggle between, on the one hand, the old world with our ageing populations and inflexible economies, and, on the other, the raw and unbridled energies of an emerging, younger, nimbler and very different world, led by countries like China: all relatively new to prosperity and unencumbered by our western populations’ sense of entitlement.

We in Europe and North America (and, for instance, Japan, Australia and South Korea) are increasingly weighed down by low birth rates and high longevity. It’s more than a decade since in Japan sales of nappies for the elderly overtook sales of nappies for babies. One Japanese town is now recycling used incontinence pads into fuel for heating. Here in Britain it has become a common joke that our country has become a massive health service and attached care homes sector, with a state as a mere appendage, rather than the other way round.

A proportionately ever-smaller working population carries an ever-larger cohort of elderly and retired citizens, supported by state pensions and advances in medical science that sustain us into ever-longer retirements. When I was a child the average male lived to about 65, the age of male retirement. The average female lasted about ten years beyond her retirement age at 60. In 2020 the average male had lived on more than 20 years (the average female nearly 30) beyond retirement.

Good news? Often not for the final years of these extended retirements, often characterised by immobility, ill-health and dementia: and typically wildly expensive, cornering resources to fund our health and social care sectors. This imbalance helps explain governments’ desperate reliance on immigration — to the rage of electorates who won’t face the fundamental question: how are our economies going to pay for the ruinously expensive overhang that dare not speak its name: old age and infirmity?

It may sound brutal, but I don’t apologise for the reductivist tone in which this column treats human beings as units — in deficit or surplus to the collective. For a society as much as for an individual, self-preservation must shine a harsh beam on to the balance between input and output. To protect its future, a healthy society must adapt its norms, its cultural taboos and its moral codes. This does not usually happen by decree but by a largely unconscious general creep. People begin changing their minds, often unaware of why.

I suspect — and believe I notice — that our culture is changing its mind about the worth of old age when coupled with crippling degeneration, incapacity, indignity and often suffering. If I’m right, our growing interest in assisted dying may reflect a largely unconscious realisation that we simply cannot afford extreme senescence or desperate infirmity for as many such individuals as our society is producing. “Your time is up” will never be an order, but — yes, the objectors are right — may one day be the kind of unspoken hint that everybody understands. And that’s a good thing.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7ac1 ... 6b820050c9
Τελευταία επεξεργασία από το μέλος talaipwros την 30 Μαρ 2024, 13:48, έχει επεξεργασθεί 1 φορά συνολικά.

talaipwros
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Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από talaipwros » 30 Μαρ 2024, 13:48

It may sound brutal, but I don’t apologise for the reductivist tone in which this column treats human beings as units — in deficit or surplus to the collective. For a society as much as for an individual, self-preservation must shine a harsh beam on to the balance between input and output. To protect its future, a healthy society must adapt its norms, its cultural taboos and its moral codes. This does not usually happen by decree but by a largely unconscious general creep. People begin changing their minds, often unaware of why.

I suspect — and believe I notice — that our culture is changing its mind about the worth of old age when coupled with crippling degeneration, incapacity, indignity and often suffering. If I’m right, our growing interest in assisted dying may reflect a largely unconscious realisation that we simply cannot afford extreme senescence or desperate infirmity for as many such individuals as our society is producing. “Your time is up” will never be an order, but — yes, the objectors are right — may one day be the kind of unspoken hint that everybody understands. And that’s a good thing.
Καθολου καλα δεν παμε

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Beria
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Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από Beria » 30 Μαρ 2024, 13:50

Διαφωνείς με την υποβοηθούμενη ευθανασία, Ταλ;
gassim έγραψε:
07 Σεπ 2021, 14:12
Ωρες είναι τώρα να οικειοποιηθεί η αριστερά και την Γαλλική επανάσταση.

talaipwros
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Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από talaipwros » 30 Μαρ 2024, 13:53

Beria έγραψε:
30 Μαρ 2024, 13:50
Διαφωνείς με την υποβοηθούμενη ευθανασία, Ταλ;
Αγαπητε, βλεπεις τί γραφει το αρθρο;
Δεν προτεινει την υποβοηθουμενη ευθανασια ως προσφορα ελεους σε αυτον που ποναει, αλλα ως τροπο να μειωσουμε το κοστος νοσηλειας στους ασθενεις που δεν προσφερουν στη κοινωνια.

Λένε δηλαδη αυτό
Εικόνα

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Beria
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Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από Beria » 30 Μαρ 2024, 13:54

Απάντησε πρώτα στην ερώτηση μου
gassim έγραψε:
07 Σεπ 2021, 14:12
Ωρες είναι τώρα να οικειοποιηθεί η αριστερά και την Γαλλική επανάσταση.

talaipwros
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Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από talaipwros » 30 Μαρ 2024, 13:56

Beria έγραψε:
30 Μαρ 2024, 13:54
Απάντησε πρώτα στην ερώτηση μου
μονο με εξαιρετικα μετρα ασφαλειας που θα επιβεβαιωνουν απουσια καταθλιψης και θα επιβεβαιωνουν πονο που δεν περναει με τιποτα συν πολυ μικρο προσδοκιμο επιβιωσης.

Αν υπαρχει υποψια ανοιας θα απαγορευεται και οποιος υποβοηθα ανοικο ή καταθλιπτικο να αυτοκτονησει θα δικαζεται ως δολοφονος.

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Βίνγκιλοτ
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Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από Βίνγκιλοτ » 30 Μαρ 2024, 14:00

Θατσερικός είναι ο κυριος Μάθιου Πάρις;

Συμφωνώ ότι είναι απίστευτα βάρβαρο.
Otto Weininger έγραψε:
19 Απρ 2024, 20:19
Ορθά να τιμωρηθεί ο αστυνομικός, αφού δεν έχει μάθει ακόμα τρόπους να ακινητοποιεί τέτοια άτομα χωρίς να τα τραυματίζει τόσο πολύ και τόσο εμφανώς.

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dna replication
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Phorum.gr user: dna

Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από dna replication » 30 Μαρ 2024, 14:07

οι δισεκατομυριούχοι πληρώνουν και κάνουν μεταγγίσεις αίματος απο εφήβους και ξανανιώνουν.
Ανταλλάσουν και tips μεταξυ τους π.χ. για το πως σε κάνει να νοιώθεις το αίμα παρθένας νέγρας
Наше дело правое - победа будет за нами!

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Γαληνός
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Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από Γαληνός » 30 Μαρ 2024, 14:08

Τι μας κάνει εντυπωση;

Ο Καπιταλισμός είναι ακριβώς αυτό το σύστημα.
Κόστος-όφελος, ελεύθερη αγορά, δεν υπάρχουν λεφτόδεντρα (μόνο εκατοντάδες δισεκατομμυριούχοι που μπορουν να αυξάνουν τα κέρδη τους ανενόχλητα και παγκόσμια).

Και μας οδηγεί στον Νεο-Μεσαιωνα.

Γτι δεν υπάρχει φόβος να ανατραπεί, όπως υπήρχε με το αντιπάλο δεος (ΕΣΣΔ) ή οπως πιθανά θα μπορουσε να υπάρχει σε ένα αδέσμευτο, πολυπολικο, διακρατικό συστημα
“A bird doesn’t sing because it has an answer, it sings because it has a song.”—Joan Walsh Anglund

talaipwros
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Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από talaipwros » 30 Μαρ 2024, 14:11

Γαληνός έγραψε:
30 Μαρ 2024, 14:08
Τι μας κάνει εντυπωση;

Ο Καπιταλισμός είναι ακριβώς αυτό το σύστημα.
Κόστος-όφελος, ελεύθερη αγορά, δεν υπάρχουν λεφτόδεντρα (μόνο εκατοντάδες δισεκατομμυριούχοι που μπορουν να αυξάνουν τα κέρδη τους ανενόχλητα και παγκόσμια).

Και μας οδηγεί στον Νεο-Μεσαιωνα.

Γτι δεν υπάρχει φόβος να ανατραπεί, όπως υπήρχε με την υπαρξη αντιπάλου δεους (ΕΣΣΔ) ή πως πιθανά θα υπήρχε σε ένα αδέσμευτος πολυπολικο διακρατικό συστημα
καλα, στην ΕΣΣΔ ουσιαστικα δεν υπηρχαν ηλικιωμενοι, πεθαιναν στα 55 αλλα αυτη ειναι αλλη ιστορια

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Dwarven Blacksmith
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Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από Dwarven Blacksmith » 30 Μαρ 2024, 14:16

Late capitalism culture.

Οι μισοί λένε αν ζήσουμε άλλα 10 χρόνια, θα ζήσουμε άλλα 100. Οι άλλοι λένε ψόφα. Στην πραγματικότητα καθένας αναφέρεται σε άλλη τάξη.
🔻I would have lived in peace. But my enemies brought me war.🔻

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Dwarven Blacksmith
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Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από Dwarven Blacksmith » 30 Μαρ 2024, 14:19

Γαληνός έγραψε:
30 Μαρ 2024, 14:08
Γτι δεν υπάρχει φόβος να ανατραπεί, όπως υπήρχε με το αντιπάλο δεος (ΕΣΣΔ) ή οπως πιθανά θα μπορουσε να υπάρχει σε ένα αδέσμευτο, πολυπολικο, διακρατικό συστημα
Ζεις μια εποχή που ο καπιταλισμός έχει ένα πολύ πιο άξιο αντίπαλο από την ΕΣΣΔ, και καμία ιδέα για τον πως θα τον αντιμετωπίσει στο υλικό πεδίο. Στο ιδεολογικό πεδίο ο εκφασισμός θα κρατήσει Θερμοπύλες.
🔻I would have lived in peace. But my enemies brought me war.🔻

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Orion22
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Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από Orion22 » 30 Μαρ 2024, 14:20

πιο αναλυτικά εδώ
In 2016, the Canadian government legalized medical assistance in dying. The program, called MAID, was founded on good Millian grounds. The Canadian Supreme Court concluded that laws preventing assisted suicide stifled individual rights. If people have the right to be the architect of their life, shouldn’t they have the right to control their death? Shouldn’t they have the right to spare themselves needless suffering and indignity at the end of life?

As originally conceived, the MAID program was reasonably well defined. Doctors and nurses would give lethal injections or fatal medications only to patients who met certain criteria, including all of the following: the patient had a serious illness or disability; the patient was in an “advanced state” of decline that could not be reversed; the patient was experiencing unbearable physical or mental suffering; the patient was at the point where natural death had become “reasonably foreseeable.”

To critics who worried that before long, people who were depressed, stressed, or just poor and overwhelmed would also be provided assistance to die, authorities were reassuring: The new law wouldn’t endanger those who are psychologically vulnerable and not near death. Citing studies from jurisdictions elsewhere in the world with similar laws, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau declared that this “simply isn’t something that ends up happening.”

But the program has worked out rather differently. Before long, the range of who qualifies for assisted suicide was expanded. In 2021, the criterion that natural death must be “reasonably foreseeable” was lifted. A steady stream of stories began to appear in the media, describing how the state was granting access to assisted suicide to people who arguably didn’t fit the original criteria.

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If you are having thoughts of suicide, please know that you are not alone. If you’re in danger of acting on suicidal thoughts, call 911. For support and resources, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988 or text 741741 for the Crisis Text Line.

For example, the Associated Press reported on the case of Alan Nichols. Nichols had lost his hearing in childhood, and had suffered a stroke, but for the most part was able to live independently. In June 2019, at age 61, he was hospitalized out of concern that he might be suicidal. He urged his brother Gary to “bust him out” of the facility as soon as possible. But within a month, he applied for a physician-assisted death, citing hearing loss as his only medical condition. A nurse practitioner also described Nichols’s vision loss, frailty, history of seizures, and general “failure to thrive.” The hospital told the AP that his request for a lethal injection was valid, and his life was ended. “Alan was basically put to death,” his brother told the AP.

In The New Atlantis, Alexander Raikin described the case of Rosina Kamis, who had fibromyalgia and chronic leukemia, along with other mental and physical illnesses. She presented these symptoms to the MAID assessors and her death was approved. Meanwhile, she wrote in a note evidently meant for those to whom she had granted power of attorney: “Please keep all this secret while I am still alive because … the suffering I experience is mental suffering, not physical. I think if more people cared about me, I might be able to handle the suffering caused by my physical illnesses alone.” She was put to death on September 26, 2021, via a lethal injection, at the age of 41.

Read: Is aid in dying a better death?

In The Free Press, Rupa Subramanya reported on the case of a 23-year-old man named Kiano Vafaeian, who was depressed and unemployed, and also had diabetes and had lost vision in one eye. His death was approved and scheduled for September 22, 2022. The doctor who was to perform the procedure emailed Vafaeian clear and antiseptic instructions: “Please arrive at 8:30 am. I will ask for the nurse at 8:45 am and I will start the procedure at around 9:00 am. Procedure will be completed a few minutes after it starts.” Vafaeian could bring a dog with him, as long as someone would be present to take care of it.

About two weeks before the appointment, Vafaeian’s 46-year-old mother, Margaret Marsilla, telephoned the doctor who was scheduled to kill her son. She recorded the call and shared it with The Free Press. Posing as a woman named Joann, she told the doctor that she wanted to die by Christmas. Reciting basic MAID criteria, the doctor told her that she needed to be over 18, have an insurance card, and be experiencing “suffering that cannot be remediated or treated in some way that’s acceptable to you.” The doctor said he could conduct his assessment via Zoom or WhatsApp. Marsilla posted on social media about the situation. Eventually, the doctor texted Marsilla, saying that he would not follow through with her son’s death.
και το πλήρες, εδω
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... id/673790/

πείτε όμως και κανένα ευχαριστώ στον θειο κλάους και τα διακορευμένα υπουργικα συμβούλιά του σε καναδά κι ελλάδα
Dolce et decorum est contra pasok.* pugnatre
@gov.gr : «You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war.»

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GoBzi
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Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από GoBzi » 30 Μαρ 2024, 14:32

Dwarven Blacksmith έγραψε:
30 Μαρ 2024, 14:19
Ζεις μια εποχή που ο καπιταλισμός έχει ένα πολύ πιο άξιο αντίπαλο από την ΕΣΣΔ
Ο Ιησούς Χριστός;
Ψευτοανρθωπιστές όλων των χωρών, ενωθείτε! https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tyOHY83IBoc
PHORUM Discord: https://discord.com/invite/GaNbtqYD

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Dwarven Blacksmith
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Re: Pressure will grow on the terminally ill to hasten their own deaths – that’s not a bad thing

Μη αναγνωσμένη δημοσίευση από Dwarven Blacksmith » 30 Μαρ 2024, 14:35

GoBzi έγραψε:
30 Μαρ 2024, 14:32
Dwarven Blacksmith έγραψε:
30 Μαρ 2024, 14:19
Ζεις μια εποχή που ο καπιταλισμός έχει ένα πολύ πιο άξιο αντίπαλο από την ΕΣΣΔ
Ο Ιησούς Χριστός;
:102:
🔻I would have lived in peace. But my enemies brought me war.🔻

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